We just passed Valentine’s Day, which actually capped off National Marriage Week, a week intended to strengthen marriages. So, I thought this was a good time to talk with our friend Dave Buehring about marriage.
Dave Buehring is the founder and president of Lionshare Leadership Group, an organization dedicated to equipping disciples to fulfill the Great Commission throughout all vocations where they work.
In this conversation we discuss, what is marriage? How does God intend for marriage to be pursued? How does he pursue his wife, Cheryl? They’ve been married a while, what does that look like now? What are the planning or the prayer or the practices of Dave and his wife?
Our hope is not to provide a formula, or a set of rules— but just to let you listen in as two friends discuss what it looks like to love our spouses and encourage them in the call God specifically gave them, and provide some real-life examples of how to strengthen marriage in different seasons of life.
This is a slightly edited transcript, for clarity. You can listen to the entire interview online or wherever you get podcasts:
Carmen: I feel confident that in some way you and Cheryl celebrated Valentine’s Day.
Dave: Oh, we did and it was awesome. This is Cheryl’s perspective. So we’ve been married 43 years and this is her vantage point. She says, our anniversary, which is December 4th is a really important our day, but Valentine’s Day still lets me know that I’m your sweetheart. That’s kind of how it plays out in my home.
Carmen: I love that. So Jim and I decided that instead of buying new seven or $8 cards this year, we would dig out the cards we’ve given each other over the last, we’ll be celebrating 15 years in May. And so dig out the last 14 or so years of cards. And we each selected four or five in my case, and we read them back to each other and said, these words are still true today. I am glad I said it then. And these are still true. I still mean these same things today.
It took the pressure off of, I mean, I don’t know about you, maybe after 43 years you have new words, but 14 years in, I’m like, I kind of, out of words, I’m certainly out of new words. So let’s talk about marriage from your perspective. What is it?
Dave: Well, I think it’s a commitment between a husband and wife that they make for a lifetime to walk together, to love each other, to, I also really believe that a big part of marriage is me looking for a way to help my wife fulfill the purposes of God for her life and for her to do the same with me that we both recognize, all right, here’s what God’s called us to be. And we help each other do that. And so we kind of have this viewpoint when I’m helping younger leaders, particularly as they’re getting ready to be married or newly married, is to help them recognize that when you’re married, there’s really three callings that you tend, there’s her calling before God, there’s his calling before God, and then there’s our calling before God. So Cheryl and I recognize there’s things God’s given her that I need to come alongside and help her steward and serve vice versa with me. But then there’s certain things that we are called to do together, and that is often I think a freeing way to look at it. I run into couples that feel like, no, we need to do everything together. It is like yes and no.
There’s certain gifts I have that I need to steward, certain gifts Cheryl has, she needs to steward. But then there’s certain things that God calls us to together. And so none of that is in any kind of independent from each other. I do what I can. I feel a responsibility before the Lord to help Cheryl fulfill her call, and she does for me. And then there’s certain things that we know. These are things God’s actually asked us to do together.
Carmen: So maybe you could describe, if you’re listening right now, Dave is helping us just think through and talk about marriage, what it is, how he and Cheryl have lived these 43 years of married life together, walking with the Lord and each other in their individual callings and in their calling together before God.
And so Dave, my guess is that you and Cheryl have talked about those individual callings and your calling together as a couple. I know that’s a conversation that Jim and I had prior to our marriage and we continue to have that conversation today. So I’m so glad that you’re talking about it this way. Is there any of that that you feel okay to share her calling, the calling of the two of you together?
Dave: So for Cheryl, she’s gifted differently than I am. Her strengths are in the, if you’re looking at spiritual gifts in Scripture, for example, she’s got the gift of help where she comes alongside, lifts a load, and so others can do what they’re called to do. She’s also got a tremendous gift of discernment where she’s able to. Sometimes we have some code language between us because oftentimes I’m pulled into meetings and pulled into things to speak or just to be present for. And so our inner code is a seven, or excuse me, an 8, 9, 10 means it’s really important that you’re here. You got to come with me of four, five sixes. It’s up to you. A 3, 2, 1 is, don’t worry about it because as a wife, she can often be pulled into a lot of the things that I’m doing because people kind of have expectations for her being there.
So we’ve just decided, look here, let’s decide based on what I’m sensing your need to be there is. And she’s always got the freedom a hundred percent to be there if she wants to. But oftentimes she’ll look at me, is this something I should be at, something I could be at or something I don’t need to be at? So that lets her focus on her strengths while she’s also willing to come and contribute with mine. She’s also an artist, so she’s got kind of her art stuff. She’s also got a little hospitality stuff she does. She creates the environment and things that we do with the Lionshare that lets people come in, get a cup of coffee, some food in their hand, communication with each other and they feel comfortable by the time I begin to kind of dive in. So that’s kind Cheryl, she’s got that.
And then my side is more leadership, public communication, speaking, writing, that kind of thing. And so we attend each other. So with the Lionshare Leadership Group, there’s specific roles that she has. She’s walked with me through the whole, this is our 25th anniversary year, so she’s walked with me through the pioneering of all that. She knows all the history of it. So she’s doing our history table at our 25th celebration in May. And so she comes alongside of me. I come alongside of her with her artwork. I’m not Mr. Wiz when it comes to technology, but I could for a season do a Wix or a Etsy web presence for her where she doesn’t like to do that or know how I can say I can figure that out and do that where for me, she’ll come alongside. And like yesterday I spoke at her church and she said, no, I want to be there. Both services, I want to be present with you. And so we look for ways to come alongside each other when it relates to our gifts that way.
Carmen: That’s so good. I am taking notes. I resonate with everything that you have said to this point. And I also think that there are those of us who, I mean we might be as old as you but are not, our marriage is not as seasoned as yours. And so there are certainly things for us to learn from you in this conversation. I’m thinking here about myself and my marriage that there is always growth to be had. There’s always pruning to be experienced. God actually has an intent for marriage and every marriage, each marriage and every marriage. And so it just felt a helpful conversation or a conversation would be helpful today, and that’s certainly proving true.
So when you think about marriage, Dave, how does God intend marriage to be pursued? Or maybe how does God intend you to pursue your wife in marriage? Do you see what I’m getting at there? Yeah. What are we supposed to be doing?
Dave: I do, yeah. I would have a similar value system based on our years together of just health. You want health in marriage. And so one of the ways that I look at this, I have to make it practical. I think as a guy, oftentimes men, how do I do this? And then once they know how to do that, they can put it into practice. And so for me, there are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 different fronts that I mentally tend my wife. So what I mean by that is, and I’ll kind of do a scale thing, so I’ll kind of do a one to 10, 10 being she’s really good there now to one, not so much. So here’s what I mean. So I try to do this. If I can do it weekly, it’s a huge win. Alright, how is my wife doing spiritually? So what I mean by that is knowing the condition of her walk with Jesus, the place of people encouraging her, growing her own friendship with God, her walk in obedience, that kind of thing.
And so it’s like, how’s Cheryl doing spiritually this week? One to 10 scale. Alright, the second one is emotional and for guys, this is something we need to learn to pay attention to, but knowing the condition of your spouse’s heart and emotions so that I can, whether it’s comfort or strengthen. And so this week she’s leaving tomorrow for some time away with a friend for about five days. And I know emotionally just reading her, she’s got both excitement of going and a little bit of, not dread at all, but excitement of going along with just all that goes with packing the bag and the airport and with a plane light beyond time. And so I’m aware of that this week. So I’m trying to pay attention. How can I help her? Third one is mentally knowing what’s weighing on her mind. So whether it’s I can help carry that burden in prayer or help encourage and impart peace, but I have to know what’s on her mind physically knowing the condition of her physical wellbeing, her overall health, her rest need for refreshment, that kind of thing.
The fifth one is relationally knowing the condition of her relationships. Is she spending more time with healthy life-giving friends, or is she finding herself in the weeds of just day-to-day ministry where she’s helping pulling people out of difficult times and passing on wisdom, but it can have its wear on you. So it’s kind of being aware of how she’s doing there. And the last one I just call Destiny, it’s knowing her call. How is she doing from that? Is she drifting from that? Am I being her biggest fan and her prayer warrior with that? So those are six areas that I feel like as a husband I can be very practical with. And of course she can do those same things for me.
Carmen: That’s so good. On the relational list, I am finding, I just have a rising recognition of the generational demands. So it’s not just the condition of my relationships with my friends. And yes, those people who I liked the language of, they kind of pull on you because you are a wisdom person and you’ve taught me that I’m a wisdom person now. And so I allow that pulling to take place. But then I also, I’ve got parents who need attention. I have a sister who needs attention. I’ve got kids who need attention. I have grandkids who need attention. And so relationally, when I think about myself and Jim, and I think about everybody over Valentine’s weekend, everybody needed somebody to keep their kids for some portion of time so that they could have a time with their Valentine. Which meant that Valentine’s for us was last night, which is totally fine. Other people needed us to make it possible for Saturday, Friday night, Saturday, Saturday night to be their time. So I think that particularly those of us who are maybe mature, not only in our faith but also mature in our marriages, we get it that you can carve out that time with each other anytime Valentine’s Day matters. I so appreciate your perspective on that and Cheryl’s perspective on that. But there’s also the freedom of letting that date float depending on what’s going on in your life. Yeah,
Dave: Yeah. Yep. Unless you have a spouse where the date is particularly important. I have that. So it’s like Cheryl really values us celebrating her birthday on her birthday things. But again, see that’s me having to know mentally and emotionally what that means to her. And we’re in a season too where our kids are out, they’re grown, and so we have a little bit more freedom. But tonight we’re spending time with our kids, our grandkids, because our son and daughter-in-law are going out for Valentine’s. And it might’ve been because by the time they got to planning, all the restaurants were booked or the price of flowers and chocolate today is way less.
Dave: Yeah. We got grandkid time tonight, which will be great for us so that my son and daughter-in-law can go do their Valentine. So I agree. There’s just flexibility there and it’s being dialed into your spouse to recognize what’s important to them.
Carmen: I love that. And I love that what’s important to your spouse and what’s important to my spouse are going to be different. We’re going to arrive at different answers to those questions, and that’s okay. Like, Hey, Dave and Carmen are not giving marriage advice here that tells you you have to go do it this way. Dave, any final thoughts here as we’re just talking openly about this subject today?
Dave: Yeah, I mean I think there has to be intentionality to it just like you and Jim were, how you did your Valentine’s card exchange of pulling out some of the greatest hits. And it’s the intentionality, and I think that’s something that can sneak up on us is if I could use the word familiarity, we forget our, we know Jesus is our first love, and the Bible tells us not to forget our first love. But we also, I think in our relationships with our spouse, you got to go back to your first love. And Cheryl likes, there was some marriage event we went to a number of years ago that she really valued and she said, I remember when they said the thing that attracted you first and loudest to your spouse becomes in marriage often the greatest challenge she would tell you if she was on with us today.
She said, Dave, one of the things I admired about you is the way you related so well to people, and I admired your leadership, but she says, now, as a spouse, it’s like, I see how much you can be pulled on by people and I am ready to depart the gathering and you could be here another hour. And so she said, it doesn’t cause any less value that I had when I saw you and we first met when we were 22, 23 years of age, and I saw those things in you. And she said, I still value them in you. But she said those things can become a challenge because, and so the person who taught us that at some wedding seminar, that was very good. It left some good food for thought for us both because otherwise if you don’t recognize that, then it can become familiar. And it’s, oh, and Cheryl remembers, no, these are things I admired about him and obviously other people do too. And just as the spouse, it sometimes means that I have to just say, you know what? I think I’m going to head out. I’ll meet you at home. And my response is, okay, honey, thank you for being with me. I’ll see him a little bit. So you learned to lay your life down for each other and help each other in the midst of those times, but it takes intentionality.
Carmen: Yeah. You have me thinking about Joseph and the things that attracted him to Mary and he was like, I love that she loves the Lord. I love that she’s open to doing whatever the Lord calls her to do. I love that she’s spiritually sensitive. I love that she kind of ponders things in her heart. I love those things about Mary and then what that actually means in real life and how God had to work on him a little bit. I mean, he’s proven so faithful. I love Joseph.
But when I think about marriage and I think about the individual calling of two people, like where you started this conversation, it’s her calling, his calling and then our calling or their calling together. And I think we could use biblical examples like that. We could use Zechariah and Elizabeth, we could use faithful marriages where they are good examples of her calling, calling their calling together and how God works that out over time all the way home to the father’s house. That would be where I want to land. This plane marriage is all the way home to the father’s house.
Brother, thank you so much. What a joy to visit with you today. Blessings on you and Cheryl as she travels. And yeah, we love you and appreciate your presence here on The Reconnect.
